Great Britain KGV Question

I have the attached that came to me as Watermark Crown, Die 2, SG 345 - Specialty N12(1), Scarlet.




However the Wmk is 100, Simple Cypher. And I see the Die as Die A as listed in SG, not Die 2. Im looking at the shading in the top ribbon below Revenue. BUT, if I go by this older thread, http://goscf.com/t/12112&whichpage=...hTerms=sg345

the Lion indicates Die 2. So what is it, Die 1 or Die A OR Die 2 or Die B?

Example no. 2.







Comes to me as bright scarlet, N13(2), watermark multiple cypher W103, Die 2.

I think its watermark W100 simple cypher as the watermark seems to be somewhat offset to right of center, but I dont see any other impression to the side - only upper and bottom of the watermark I can see. Sorry, I cannot get it to show to post. But I also think Die A , going by shading underneath of Revenue.... SG number??

SG 345 is Wmk Royal Cypher (Simple Cypher) with the shaded lion. I don't think Die A or B applies to the shaded lion.

ok, think I got it now. But, is Die A and Die 1 the same thing? Die B and Die 2? The hand made sheets I pulling the stamps from, the previous owner used Die 1 & 2 instead of A & B.... Mistake or interchangeable?

It could be Die A and B in Stanley Gibbons, and Type 1 and 2 in Scott's. I'm not quite sure what your dealer was using or referring to.

Confusing to me. The sheets are using SG numbering, etc.... Heres an example - this is where the 2nd stamp comes from.

2nd example watermark. I cant tell.... Top of stamp facing up

These are specialised listings. Put simply: if you want specialised information on British stamps, stop quoting Scott numbers. Either describe what is meant by it or search for the relevant SG numbers.

Both Downey Heads have two dies, 1 and 2. Die 1 has a variant for both stamps. So there are dies 1A, 1B, and 2.

Both stamps are Die 2.

N12, SG 345 has Simple Cypher, not Imperial Crown watermark. N13, SG349/350 has Multiple Cypher watermark. I cannot rule out the watermark you show is Multiple Cypher. The image is not clear enough.


So




No. A and B are subtypes of die 1.




Correct. However, there are no Die A and B, only dies 1a, 1b, and 2.

Oops, where did I quote Scott numbers?? I think what you mention may be the essence of my question though. As I did say this was confusing to me and I did post a link from sn older thread which no one addressed…. Maybe from that thread?

Ah, or non-descript watermark numbers.

W100 has no value whatsoever without a clear specification of the catalogue you are using. And even then, it has no value. SG specialised and SG Concise do not even use the same watermarks. There have not been 100 or more watermarks used on British stamps and postal fiscals.

As for the dies, 1 and 2 are dies, A and B states of die 1. So A and B do not exist, only 1A (1a) and 1B (1b).

So where did you see Scott number? Or now you are saying you don't like the watermark number? I'm not trying to value the stamp by watermark identification.

There may be some confusion. I was the one that brought up the idea of a Scott's number. Since it really wasn't stated anywhere else, I suggest we just drop that line of inquiry.

Yes, I was the one that was confused - thats why I asked this question. But, there was also another older thread that I linked to re: lion, etc... So I didnt know if that was what was being referred to.... But THEN the whole watermark scenario seemed a bit strange too.




I think you were spot on here.

Thank you.

Hello!

Both the stamps are certainly Die 2. The shading of the lion is decisive; the shading of the ribbon is irrelevant.

There's been some confusion about the numbering of the watermarks. In SG Concise, the numbering of illustrations is consecutive, whether the illustrations are of stamps or of watermarks, so Imperial Crown is W 49, Simple Cypher is W 100, and Multiple Cypher is W 103. I can't identify any of the three possible watermarks from the scan provided, but it shouldn't be too difficult to identify the watermark of an unused stamp of this period by sight if you've had a little practice in doing so.

There's also been some confusion about the numbering of the dies. SG Concise distinguishes two types, not two dies, and calls the two states of the first "type" Die A and Die B. But SG Specialised calls them Die 1A and Die 1B. So all the confusion is the fault of Stanley Gibbons!

I hope this (my first post here) has been of some help.

Yes, it has! I have been confused in the past about the Die designations and your explanation cleared it all up. Thank you.

Your explanation definitely helps. Many thanks!