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Pillar Of The Community
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534 Posts |
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Pillar Of The Community
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3822 Posts |
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Zebra - excellent analysis.
tsmatx - "I suspect the scammers were not well versed in philately. I think everything Siegel sells, especially at that price point, could be uniquely identified and traced without too much trouble. I think it would have been very difficult to re-sell any of that material for more than a tiny of fraction of the sales price because any publicity would have brought attention to the stolen merchandise. Or else maybe the scammers were stamp collectors and planning to keep it all LOL."
or tthey were counting on not being discovered to be sccammers and thus could have been able to resell the stamps without them being tainted. |
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Valued Member
United States
61 Posts |
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Having worked as an IRS Revenue Agent in a distant past life ( 1975 ), and as a certified IRS stamp appraiser more recently, I hope someone familiar with the stamp market is consulted on how to move these lots when they are finally sold, or they will bring pennies on the dollar.
The DOJ seized Pokemon cards bought with Covid funds meant to keep employees on payroll and had no idea what to do with them. One card had been.purchased for over $50,000 during the pandemic, and is worth much less now. I think the DOJ still has it. Many times the owners are not reimbursed for long periods due to litigation. I have no idea how Hugh Wood or CIA would handle such a situation, or who ever Siegel uses when stamps are in their custody... What a mess. Obviously this happened over a year ago from the comments. These cases take time to investigate and prosecute. |
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Valued Member
United States
322 Posts |
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So Siegel was swept by a "Bug of Fraud".
Bugsy Siegel.
Bugsy "Don't call me Bugsy" Siegel. |
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Pillar Of The Community
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3073 Posts |
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Quote:
Scott Trepel's post on another board -
Siegel and India Investigation
For the record:
1. The investigation first became known to Siegel in August 2023 when the firm was contacted by the FBI. Only one sale, the Magnolia India Part 1 auction, is involved.
2. The buyers involved are well-known collectors. One of them arranged for payments to Siegel to be made on their behalf through intermediaries who were never disclosed to Siegel.
3. Payments from these buyers were made according to schedule by depositing the funds directly into Siegel's bank account at various branches throughout the country. Siegel was notified to expect the credits and how to allocate the payments among the invoices involved. Siegel never had possession of any payment instrument (cashier's checks, personal checks or money orders) in advance of deposit and could only obtain a visual record from the bank weeks after the deposit was made.
4. At the time Siegel was contacted by the FBI, only one $20,000 payment was flagged as suspect. The list grew over several months as the FBI, with Siegel's cooperation, investigated every deposit and depositor to determine if they might be a victim of the alleged fraud.
5. At the point it became clear that there were issues with multiple payments received by Siegel, Siegel determined it was prudent to hold the lots pending a complete investigation. In early 2024, the seizure warrant was issued.
6. Siegel's cooperation with the FBI and DOJ investigation was instrumental in identifying the victims of the alleged fraud and hopefully will also assist in holding the perpetrators accountable. As stated in the DOJ press release, Siegel is not accused of any wrongdoing. |
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Pillar Of The Community
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So they bought a whole bunch of stuff at one time and "paid" it off over time and it took Siegel some time to become suspicious. I would therefore guess they did ship out some lots as payment came in before they stopped.
So "The buyers involved are well-known collectors", which raises the question as to whether they purchased other stamps previously with ill gotten money. It also means some big buyers will no longer be in the market.
Inquring minds want to know who these guys are. |
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Valued Member
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143 Posts |
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Quote:
The buyers involved are well-known collectors So that means they had to be in on it? Or could this be one of those scams where someone convinces you to buy something on a website and have it shipped to them? |
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Valued Member
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304 Posts |
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EyeOnTheWall - re-read Scott's 5th point.
"At the point it became clear that there were issues with multiple payments received by Siegel, Siegel determined it was prudent to hold the lots pending a complete investigation. In early 2024, the seizure warrant was issued."
Seems to me that nothing was shipped. |
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Pillar Of The Community
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The buyers could potentially be the owners of the companies who scammed the funds, seeking to launder the money earlier on in the chain. |
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Pillar Of The Community
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Bobin- It does not say specifically they did not ship anything early on, only that they decided to hold once they became suspicious. |
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Valued Member
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And of course, that the buyers were "well known collectors" is just Siegel's claim. We don't know if that's actually the case, might just be spin to try and explain how they got duped. In some alternative universe I might be considered "a well known collector." |
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| Edited by Mainer - 07/05/2024 11:17 am |
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Valued Member
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433 Posts |
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[quote][quote]
It appears that Siegel had already flagged one 20K payment as "suspicious". Then the FBI called. It further appears that the call had the effect of focusing Siegels' attention on the rest of the account payments till, voila- over a million in bad pay.
The totality will surely come out shortly.
The cons and scams are getting much better.
Cheers mark |
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Valued Member
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Quote:
it took Siegel some time to become suspicious missed the quote Cheers, and beware m |
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[quote And of course, that the buyers were "well known collectors" is just Siegel's claim.][/quote]
Perhaps the phrase should be "people well known to be collectors" to the auction house. I don't think that it necessarily means that the average collector will have heard of them. I assure you that there are people with multi million dollar collections that the average collector has never heard of, at least in conjunction with stamp collecting. |
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Pillar Of The Community
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Further, it was an auction of India stamps. If that is all they collected, them naturally most collectors outside of the India specialty will have not heard of them. |
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Replies: 53 / Views: 4,343 |
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Posted 07/01/2024 5:40 pm
