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I'm Not Sure What To Do With This Brown 2c Banknote

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United States
4696 Posts
Posted 02/04/2025   10:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a much older thread with some nice closeups of the secret mark. I may have to change my earlier guess on 146/157.

http://goscf.com/t/13532#121518
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United States
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Posted 02/04/2025   10:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@rogdcam - your 1st stamp is a 146. Your 2nd is a 157. I still think OP's stamp is a 157.

Here are some quotes about how to differentiate:

Scott Catalog (2024):
2c Under the scroll at the left of the "U.S." there is a small diagonal line. This mark seldom shows clearly. The stamp, No 157, can be distinguished by its color.

Scott Identifier of Definitives (2022)
A45a [157] Under the scroll at the left of "U.S." there is a small diagonal line."

Micarelli
In all 3 NBN issues, the line just below the scroll knob above the "S." of "U.S." does not meet the scroll knob, and there is a lack of color just below this juncture. In the CBN and ABN issues, the line just below the scroll knob above the "S." of "U.S." meets the scroll knob, and there is color just below this juncture.

1847us dot com
US 135 and 146 – There is clearly no color joining the line and ball to the left of "U.S." Note that the types can also be distinguished by the color. The Nationals are nearly always a reddish brown. This is a difficult issue to differentiate. US 157, 178 and 183 – There is a very light amount of color joining the line and ball to the left of "U.S." Since the secret mark does not appear on all Continental printings, this stamp must be distinguished by the color. The Continentals are nearly always a brown or dark brown. US 178 and 183 are orange and should not present a problem.

Brookman (1966)
The description given in the Standard Catalog for years has confused those who have looked for the mark that has been described as "Under the scroll at the left of 'U.S.' there is a small diagonal line. This mark seldom shows clearly. The stamp can be identified by its color." The secret mark described above is indeed an elusive one and had the catalog makers seen fit to give a proper description, or better still to illustrate it, collectors would have been saved a great deal of trouble the past many years.

In the illustrations shown here, the differences of the Continental and National printings are clearly shown. the arrows point to the the area where there is a joining of the lines on the Continental printings, and the same area in the Nationals where the lines do not join. In addition to the joining of the lines, there is more color in the area of the junction on the Continentals than there is on the Nationals. A glance at this area on a 2¢ will reveal whether or not the stamp is a Continental and this test should be made on these stamps despite the fact that it is easy to pick 99 out of a hundred of these stamps by their color which differs materially in that it nearly always is a dark brown instead of the red brown of the Nationals.


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Edited by Philazilla - 02/04/2025 2:59 pm
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Posted 02/04/2025   10:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Philazilla to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I took a look at my stamps and both the color and presence of the secret marks are clear. The difference is very clear in the proofs. I think folks are looking for a non-existent "diagonal line" when they should just be looking for color or lack of color in the crotch of the scroll.

National:


Continental:
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Edited by Philazilla - 02/04/2025 10:42 am
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Posted 02/04/2025   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
First of all, thanks to those who participated!

I am surprised at the answers. Given that Continental printed over 100 million copies of the two-cent stamp and that the secret mark was often not even transferred to the print I thought color would be a slam dunk identifier that all could agree upon. I was wrong. The top stamp of the two I posted together is 146 and the bottom stamp is 157. Even with the color vagaries of posted images it is clear that the 146 is reddish brown and the 157 is brown. The OP's stamp clearly (to me anyway) is not a close match to the 157.

This was a fun exercise, and I will defer to those who see the secret mark. Would still love to see what the PF had to say. This to me is a primary reason why I enjoy collecting, the detective work and social aspect.

PS: Sorry for hijacking the thread and hope that I am forgiven.
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Posted 02/04/2025   12:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rog, if you are seeing any reddish-brown in my stamp I think it is probably the scan or the monitor. Here's a scan with a bunch of 146s surrounding it. The reason for my original post was because it doesn't look like a 146.
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Posted 02/05/2025   6:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add caspian65 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The OP's stamp looks re-perforated along the bottom.
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