Stamped Envelope 2 Cent Red Circular Die?

So here is what we have
head 91/4mm
both 2 horizontal
E seems same height as N
left two smaller that right
C in cents is far from numeral
N in cents is same size top and bottom
9 3/4 across cents
High back envelope
water mark 19
thin clear sharp lettering -Not broad
I am leaning die 1 but a rather odd die 1 the left two and the E in cents stumping me.

Very, very many working dies of vinyl for this die variety which led to many minor not catalog worthy variations of this die.

Hi Bill! So die 1?

Yep, Die 1.

thanks! At least I'm heading in the right direction. The E in cents is shorter than normal correct?

"E" of "CENTS" gets wider as you go from top to bottom. Top bar is short, middle bar is longer, bottom bar is longest. May indicate a filled die?
Definitely has the major traits of die 1 but also the traits of the many electrotypes which (to my knowledge) have not been catalogued.

yes I noticed that shape of E was same as die 1, just not positioned as high. Thanks Bill.

Here is one more I think I got right. Die 6
small head 8 3/4 mm
left 2 slopes right, right 2 horizontal
N in cents 2mm or smaller
T and S in cents wide space
heavy hair bumps ( I dont show it in these pics)
WMK 32
high back
Is high back common?
I have another same as this but WMK 27 and high back

Sure looks like a die 6 but die 6 is only known on low back envelopes. Die 6 is also only known with watermarks 19 through 27 on white paper. The cancel may make measuring the head size problematic. Your die is most likely die 7 which is known on high back envelopes. Die 7 is known with watermarks 19 through 43. The lack of obvious tilt to the right "2" suggests it might be an electrotype.

SO I remeasured and you are right head 9MM. image attached. Die 7. I found out if I flip the gauge so the ink on the gauge is at the bottom, closer to the stamp, it gives me a better measurement.



Now I have this other envelope and it does measure 8 3/4MM. the nose short of the line and a clear gap at back of head. Image attached. And it also has a high back but wmk 27 1925

Head size is measured from tip of the nose to nape of the neck not the back of the head. I see that Dan Undersander added those measurements but used straight lines from the tip of the nose to the back of the head in the UPSS 20th century catalog on the pictures of the dies. Scott Specialized, using arrows, also shows tip of the nose to back of the head on Die 1 but shows it more correctly on Die 5. Measurement H, head size, is shown correctly in the book Collector's Guide to the Circular Dies (available as an eBook from the UPSS).

Yes to nape of neck it shows its clearly short of 9 mm. 8 3/4mm

I use a loup with a graticule for measurements but flipping the rule over is a neat trick.
I checked my inventory and I have a number of Die 7s where the right "2" looks horizontal.

But what do you see the head measuring at? I have several heads that measure 9, 9/14 but this is the only one I have smaller than 9. also the NTS is spaced too wide for die 7

So I think I figured this out. the head measurement is not the inked area but the embossed area. I see there is ink on to the head making the head look smaller. I noticed the embossed line is covered by ink. If I measure from the embossed line then yes the head is 9mm. You can see it looks like a shadow outline on the back of the head.

Thanks Bill for being patient with me! I know I'm slow, I just need to make sense of what I'm missing!