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Valued Member
United States
231 Posts |
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Quote:
If we cannot solve the stamp problem we have much bigger problems. Someone in government has to grow a set, and the American public has to accept some discomfort in the short-term. Do you think that China would have the same lax attitude as we do if we were flooding them with counterfeit postage? No, they would not.
To repeat, bending to China by modifying our behaviors and systems is weak and in their culture is seen as a green light to engage in ever more belligerent conduct. Appeasement is not a real policy.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I just don't think it will happen. I'd love to be proven wrong, but successive administrations clearly haven't gotten to the bottom of it, and I have zero faith that future ones will be any more effective. You're advocating for a political solution, and I just don't think that's forthcoming. I wish it was, but here we are. Absent that, we move on to technological solutions... better than the status quo, I guess? |
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Bedrock Of The Community
11509 Posts |
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Yes, something definitely needs to be done. Quote:
During the past few years, the number of U.S. stamps being counterfeited has exploded. Almost without exception, the quality of these fake stamps is remarkably close to the real thing.
The counterfeiters have solved the challenges associated with printing stamps: paper, ink and printing quality; die-cutting; and, most recently, tagging. https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamp...found-online |
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Valued Member
United States
231 Posts |
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Exactly. It's a losing arms race with the counterfeiters. The political will is apparently lacking, and even if we managed to successfully stem the tide of Chinese counterfeits, they'd probably just set up shop inside the US.
And I'm guessing the network upgrades and renovations required to successfully sniff out these counterfeits would cost just as much money as abandoning stamps and moving to single-use codes. |
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Valued Member
United States
156 Posts |
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A good start indeed! Let's hope such efforts continue. https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/new...cbp-chicago/Quote:
Thousands of counterfeit Forever Stamps were seized at the Chicago International Mail Branch last weekend, U.S. Customs and Border Protection announced Thursday.
The federal agency said it stopped eight shipments from China containing 161,860 counterfeit stamps. The stamps were seized for violating trademark laws and deemed fake "based on the very low invoice value, the routing, and the extraordinary efforts undertaken to conceal the stamps."
The purported value of the fraudulent stamps was roughly $118,000, according to CBP, had they been genuine.
The agency said the stamps were poor in quality, but counterfeiters are improving, and some consumers may not notice a difference from a real stamp.
"Counterfeiters only care about making a profit. They don't care about the effect that fake postage has on your ability to send important mail and overall impacts the U.S. economy," said LaFonda D. Sutton-Burke, director for field operations in Chicago. "Our officers and specialists are some of the most highly trained in the nation, and their level of expertise is evident with these seizures. CBP officers were able to identify these very realistic counterfeits and stop them from reaching their destinations."
The agency said it has seen a rise in counterfeit U.S. Postal Service postage stamps, especially around holidays, including high-volume card holidays.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9630 Posts |
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The counterfeiter's are also focusing on errors recently. In the last month, I have seen two examples of imperforate strips of six with plate number 1211 of the E stamp, both of which were counterfeit. Scott 2279a. |
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
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I think it is time the USPS go back to Engraving stamps. Then adding watermarks and other anicounterfiting elements. They will say the cost is to high but that is not true. The cost of production is minimal. It would take a step back and maybe investing in older presses to put them back in production. This could be done at minimum cost but would take time to put into action. As any government entity or contractor to the government it will take longer than it would in the open market at a printing plant. It can be done let's see if they do it which I think not. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9630 Posts |
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Engraved stamps get counterfeited too, although they are not engraved normally and so are easily spotted. |
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
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Stamp have value beyond the simple use of sending a letter. It has been used as a form of currency in the past. In pointing that out should not counterfiting stamps have the same laws and protections for the public as counterfeiting currency. Most recently in the 1940s the public as encouraged to take their change back in war savings stamps. Those stamps being issued in 10c, 25c, 50c, $1 and $5 denominations. A 10c stamp having the buying power of $2.25 in today's money. The public was encouraged to take their change back in war savings stamps which were used to buy savings bonds. I like to know how many of those stamps were bought or exchanged as currency that were never used to buy a bond. That was free money for the government with no interest and not valuation agaisnt the dollar. That they will never let you know how much the savings stamp campaign raises for the war effort and was never repaid or was intended to never be repaid. I am sure they took that into account when the idea was first thought of in 1917 when the first savings stamps was issued. My point is our stamp collection have value beyond sending a letter but real economic waight as a currency or form there of. So should it not be protected by law an action as counterfit currency. Just my thought, I like to hear yours. |
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| Edited by Uknjay - 02/16/2025 9:16 pm |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9630 Posts |
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I suspect that most people put the stamps in the book designed for them. How many people actually filled a book and got a bond is an open question. |
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Bedrock Of The Community
11509 Posts |
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Quote:
So should it not be protected by law an action as counterfit currency. 18 US Code 501 is useless against the Chinese Communist Party. These counterfeits are being openly manufactured in China and you don't operate in China without the knowledge of the CCP. As with fentanyl and it's precursor's this is a problem that needs to be solved politically. Fining/jailing a retailer or street dealer has never worked to stop any illegal activity. Follow the money and see how many politicians benefit indirectly from China. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3822 Posts |
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"I have seen two examples of imperforate strips of six with plate number 1211 of the E stamp, both of which were counterfeit. Scott 2279a."
Where did you see these? |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
610 Posts |
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Wait a sec... There's going to be SpongeBob stamps? I'm in! I got some of the counterfeit stamps that were used on envelopes and yes, they are very convincing. One thing the USPS can do is take a cue from currency and use a specialized paper stock. Probably not cost effective. More cost effective would be to come up with something clever on the salvage or the back of the pane or roll of stamps. I think stamp collectors have some good ideas. I like the pseudo-engraved angle. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9630 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
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If the BEP used currency paper and watermarked deeply the roll of paper. It would only be a fraction of a cent in the cost of a stamp that is now 73c. The cost is very minimal to protect the public from these counterfit stamps. I know that counterfeiters will try and match as closely as possible the new counter measures. That in mind it will take time for them to do that. In the meantime the counter measures will be in place and working as they should. I think the BEP needs to come up with their own silk laced paper that can be manufactured at little cost. Then make it illegal to have the blank paper as currency paper. That will give them time to come up with better anicounterfiting ideas and measure. This will keep us one step ahead of the counterfeiters. It would be better than nothing and being behind the a step or more. |
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Bedrock Of The Community
11509 Posts |
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Changing papers, watermarks, engraving are all reactive. Say you do all of those things. Then what? They all have to be detected once in USPS custody at some point. Do you spend hundreds of millions on new technology/machinery to detect the new measures and wait for the counterfeiters to catchup. Rinse and repeat. The lessons of the drug war apply here. You need to cut the head off the snake and to do that China needs to be persuaded somehow that it is in their best interest to not play this game anymore. Otherwise, you lose, all while increasing cost to the USPS and the consumer. OR, you can have the status quo and continue to pass the revenue lost to the counterfeiter onto the consumer. |
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Replies: 123 / Views: 18,490 |
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Posted 01/16/2025 8:21 pm
