Top Frame Line Doubled

This is a very interesting expert discussion. From my perspective, it shows that sometimes there is no definitive answer -- or at least there is a legitimate difference of opinion -- as to what may or may not be "right and proper," to use the term tossed out above. Revcollector makes a strong point from a technical aspect, but revenuecollector's analysis as to what the catalog listings refer to is equally sound. Fun stuff.

So it served no actual purpose except to add an extra line; evening off the top might only matter if they were entering the positions from the bottom up. I have seen many multiples that are uneven without having an added line so I really can't imagine why they would bother doing this. It's not as if they were being so careful overall given the pressure they were under.

Thanks to all the experts, Revenuecollector, rustyc, southpaw, lackemacher for your efforts.

Such as it is and right and proper my original posting of the stamp in question R45C as I described it is a Doubled Frame Line.

Interesting discussion!

Many thanks to the above experts.

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

very interesting the point about the pressure all those were under. Compared to first-issue revs, did later series have as many plate varieties? If not, was it because of additional time to do their work, improved technology, or both? After all it wasn't until 1880 that the electric light even came into use. I am awed by the intricacies and artistry of their work.

The second and third issues have far fewer plate varieties, although they include two foreign entries. The inverted centers are printing varieties rather than plate varieties. There was far less pressure by then.

I haven't plated all the 2nd and 3rd issues but R112 has a double transfer and 3 positions with a foreign entry, R115 has 3 double transfers, R123 and R145 have 5 double transfers,R 113 and R140 have 3 double transfers, R114 and R141 have a major plate scratch, R120 has a foreign entry and shifted vignette; R116 and R142 have 11 foreign entries. I'm sure that I have not yet identified all the plate varieties and that's the thrill of the hunt. Karl

R147 also has a double transfer, although I have not yet seen one. I have never heard of a foreign entry on R112 or seen any reference to one anywhere.

Yes I forgot about the shift on R125 and R147. The foreign entry on R112 is not from the entry of a different transfer roll but from a piece of " crap" on the R112 transfer roll showing up at the top right corner of positions 6,23,40 and the double transfer in position 57. Karl

That is not a foreign entry, just a plate flaw. My understanding is that a foreign entry has to match up to something both philatelic and identifiable.

I have an upper left corner margin example of an orange 2 cent bank check that shows the remnant of a previous usage of the plate, but I cannot identify what it was. So it's an interesting item but not a foreign entry.

Bart, Point well taken, Plate flaw not foreign entry. Karl

lackemacher, would like to see your efforts on the R112. Could you provide us with scans?

I've been interested in Foreign Transfers on U.S.A. stamps for a long time.

Your R112 is new to me, but then new varieties are always been discovered, or even misidentified by well meaning people!

It always better to have more than one set of eyes looking, I'll be happy to do a look see and give you my honest guess. It's easy to pass judgment on a variety without actually seeing it. Also just because it's not listed in the Catalog doesn't mean it does not exist!

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

The big difference here is that mine was not a "guess". It was an educated "opinion". And there is a 125+ year written history of revenue stamps to draw from as well.
Yes, new varieties get discovered, but not on a stamp with only 1 plate that has been plated for decades.

I see not problem in if possible getting to see the stamps in question R112 etc., why not get a chance to view an item, better to view it than have an educated opinion without seeing an item, don't you think so, or am I wrong?

I'm not saying your are wrong, just take of your catalog blinders, and lets hope lackemacher will provide some interesting scans for all repeat "ALL" of us to see and learn from! I really expect your are correct, but I'd still like to see a right and proper scan of these stamps, what harm could it do?

Cheers

David (Stampmaster)

First, I have seen them. Second, after 45 years of studying revenues, I resent your attempt at lecturing me about "catalog blinders", and your frequently condescending remarks made in my direction. Perhaps it might be prudent to think about changing your handle on this board, it seems innacurate.