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Application PDF and shipping questions for certificates of PF  
 

 
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Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/18/2017   07:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I am doing some research of how it works and if it's manageable to send stamps to the Philatelic Foundation from Europe.

First I have (also after direct contact to the PF) some questions about the application, especially the PDF:
- in the images, do I have to fill in anything about "Billing & Shipping", so is this concerning the shipping from me to the PF or from the PF to me? Can I choose for example FedEx and then the PF uses FedEX to send it back or is it my shipping with FedEx to the PF?
- "keep this group together" - does this mean that the shipping of the numer I give here (=stamps I sent them) is done together?

Two other questions:
- do I have to send anything to the PF in advance to announce my shipping? Like an informa invoice?
- when I choose FedEx from Europe, has anyone experiences here? So do I choose some value in the shipping letter, or better nothing (to not make the shipping too interesting...)?

And my last and most important question: if the letter is lost, how can I prove to FedEX that my stamp had a certain value as the shipping was before the certification at PF? Actually I don't have any prove for the value.

thank you for any hints.






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Edited by stamperix - 04/18/2017 07:49 am

Valued Member
United States
62 Posts
Posted 04/18/2017   09:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Billing and shipping refers to you. If you wish to have the item returned to you via FEDEX I believe that they (The PF) would prefer that you provide your FEDEX account number so that it may be charged directly to your FEDEX account. Keep this group together would mean only ship back to you when all of the items are finished and not to be returned as each is done. How you handle value is between you and your insurance company and your country's rules and regulations. FEDEX will not provide insurance for philatelic items, so you will need private insurance. If you do not have private insurance check to see your country's postal registration limitations. As to proof of value prior to shipment you would probably need an appraisal from a recognized expert in the field in question. It would help to know what the item is. Why not send them an e-mail with a scan of the item attached and ask them how to continue. I do not currently work for The PF, but did so from 1990 to 2004. I would give you my e-mail address, but I do not think that this board will allow me to do so. You can contact me through http://philamercury.com/board.php using the same user name.
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3034 Posts
Posted 04/18/2017   10:05 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can contact each other through the SCF message system (you both have 50+ posts). Simply click on the email icon as shown below.
Don





[actually, that is the EDIT button, but the one just to the left of your arrow is email. LOL -- Kirk]
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Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/18/2017   11:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello and thank you. The questions about the PDF are answered all. But after your thoughts about the insurance and many emails I got from FedEx now, I actually think it's not a good idea to send stamps to USA for certification. FedEx says that I need something like an invoice if the letter is lost, also you say that I need an appraisal, but there is no one in Germany, that's why normally you say to send to the PF to get a certificate. I mean, of course, perhaps the letter isn't lost, but I just want to be sure. Also, FedEx told me that there will be customs duty in the value I give in the shipping letter, which the PF then would have to pay.

After all I think it's ok to send stamps if they are sold, as you have an invoice, but in my case, I even don't know if the stamps are genuine before sending to the PF. But this is also the case for all the US people sending to the PF?

My last hope would be that the insurance of the PF could pay anything if I send a proforma invoice in advance of my shipping?

(yes, I will send you more information about the stamp, but my questions and your answers may help other users, so I answer here in the forum)
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Valued Member
United States
62 Posts
Posted 04/18/2017   7:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are general experts in Germany that may be able to help you. I have seen certificates on US stamps by Maria Brettl, she is a German expert but has good general knowledge. You might try contacting the A.I.E.P. at http://www.aiep-experts.net/experts/experts.html for the name of someone in Germany who might be able to help you. If you would prefer not to send me a scan, no problem. Send a scan of the stamp in question to The Philatelic Foundation. Once they see the scan they may be able to give you some information on how to proceed or suggest ways that you can determine if you have identified the stamp correctly.
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Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/19/2017   04:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, I will have a look about experts here. But I thought that they perhaps say something in an email or on telephone but probably won't give me anything in paper like a certificate, and that would be the only prove.

So - to go away from the "USA-Europe problem" - I want to ask my last question here also to all the others who read this as I guess this should be a very known and old question:

Also for US people they have to send stamps for certification (like to the PF) while they are not certified as genuine yet. So this is the same issue I have - how can you prove the value of the stamp in the letter if it's lost? FedEx as well as any private insurance want to have a prove that the value was in the letter. But a stamp without certification - has it this value yet? How do you guys handle this?
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Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   05:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Did really nobody of all of you ever send a stamp to the PF?

If yes - how did you handle it with the insurance, or did you just take the risk that there won't be any prove of value if the letter is lost?

(Let's take a stamp where Scott gives no value and the stamp isn't certified yet. How can you prove the value?)
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Valued Member
United States
208 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   08:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stampernix - In my case, I have a stamp insurance policy through the APS and a shipment to the PF would be covered by that policy. I'm not sure how the insurance company would determine value in the event of a loss. I'm sure it depends on the particular details of the stamp at issue.
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Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   1:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi SPQR,

yes, the insurance included in a stamps organization membership would be a good try for me, too. But as you say, even if you have the insurance, you don't know if they would pay :). Actually I think that for the case I described (stamp found somewhere, not bought, no Scott value, not certified yet) no insurance in the world would just accept and pay a high price if lost.

So why I asked this here, is, that I hoped that perhaps:
- any other insurance company pays the price if you show them a photo of the stamp and for example last auction results or experts' opinions (by mail and scans).
- the PF has a insurance paying here if I do a shipping advance. I knew this as I asked several auction houses here in Germany. they told me I could send them a shipping advance and then the shipping is covered by their insurance totally.

all in all: is that just a problem that we have to accept and in case of doubts we just should not send in for certification?
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Valued Member
255 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   3:15 pm  Show Profile Check matttodd1's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add matttodd1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I also have insurance through the APS and have sent numerous submissions to the PF and PSE. I've never had a reason to make a claim, so don't know exactly how that would work. I would be comfortable sending something in even without insurance though, given the track record.

Matt
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Edited by matttodd1 - 04/21/2017 3:15 pm
Valued Member
United States
208 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   4:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would not send a rare item without insurance. I had a rare Newfoundland bisect cover stolen from the registered mail when I sent it to VG Greene Foundation in Canada for a cert. The Hugh Wood / APS plan paid my claim without a problem, but I had auction purchase information and the cover already had an old BPA cert. However, I don't know how the insurance would have dealt with a "found" stamp without sales information, especially if it was one of the frequently mis-identifed or faked stamps that requires in-person study to determine if genuine. I'm thinking about some of the early coils that are very valuable if genuine but are also very likely to be faked or mis-identified. The proper identification requires precise measurement and inspection that typically cannot be done with a scan of the item.
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Edited by SPQR - 04/21/2017 4:23 pm
Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   4:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you again. Yes, the easy case is if you have an invoice or an old cert. But with found stamps both is not the case. So I guess for this case it would (for the rare case of lost) lead to litigation between me and the insurance and I would have to prove the value. Perhaps experts would be asked about the scans, and mostly there are old auction sales of similar stamps. I like it more sure, but that's like it is.

So about the insurance just the question: how much is it for APS members, and does the USSS also offer an insurance?
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Learn More...
United States
427 Posts
Posted 04/21/2017   6:09 pm  Show Profile Check rlmstamps2012's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlmstamps2012 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

From what I have experienced with the USPS and other sources
of insurance, is that you may purchase as much insurance as you want for an item. The burden to prove "that value" in case of a loss is the insured's! Home owners insurance will cover some losses. Deductibles
can be an issue.


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Edited by rlmstamps2012 - 04/21/2017 7:34 pm
Valued Member
Germany
98 Posts
Posted 04/22/2017   3:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello and thank you. So I hope now that at least the conditions of the insurance for APS members would be ok. That's why I asked if this is ok from the price site, and if other organizations like the USSS also have an insurance?
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