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New Zealand - Used or CTO?  
 

 
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Valued Member

Canada
137 Posts
Posted 03/18/2017   4:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
In the 1970s, I subscribed to new issues from the New Zealand Philatelic Bureau. The stamps came in envelopes with the stamps printed by a postage meter machine. Inside the package, however, they included stamps to the value of the metered postage on brown parcel paper with lovely circular date stamps.

My question is whether these should be classed as used, or as cancelled-to-order stamps.

And does NZ still continue this rather philatelist-friendly process?

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Australia
18737 Posts
Posted 03/18/2017   5:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion:
I would have them as used.
Impressed.
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United Kingdom
364 Posts
Posted 03/18/2017   8:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DavidR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
CTO are not postally used, which is what I prefer. On the occasions I keep them I use CTO (or FDC cancels) as space fillers until I can get a really nice CDS or a light slogan postmark. For me, a postmark adds to the history of a stamp, it shows where it has been.
DavidR
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Canada
137 Posts
Posted 03/19/2017   10:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Rod and David.

Well, it appears we have a 1-all draw. Do I get the casting vote?

I got Australia, New Zealand and Canada - plus a number of smaller Pacific countries - from my father. He was very much a believer in postally used. He didn't have any mint stamps until the KGVI era and any mint stamp he had really had to be postally useful. As a result, and to my chagrin, he had the Australian Arms high values, but only the 5/-, 10/- and 1 values. He couldn't see how anyone could use a 2 stamp on anything. This flowed back to his collection of 'Roos where his highest ale is the 2/-. And this was at a time when you could buy two complete mint sheets of 160 of the first penny red KGV sideface for 10. (But that, of course, was about 3 day's wages.)

I thought I would post an image of the NZ Philatelic Bureau equivalent postage as I find I still have a couple on their original paper.

Frank.

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Australia
18737 Posts
Posted 03/20/2017   6:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks, Rod and David.
Well, it appears we have a 1-all draw. Do I get the casting vote?


You should always get the casting vote
"Tread your own path"

Seeing your examples, I climb over the fence, and sit with David, CTO.

I was thinking they had the envelope inside the outer envelope
and the cover cancelled.
Seeing these pieces of yours, I opt for CTO.


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United States
4176 Posts
Posted 03/20/2017   6:46 pm  Show Profile Check Petert4522's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion they are postally used, because they paid for the mailing of the letter. What I would like to know is if the printed postage meters on the outside of the envelope give the actual value of the stamps or if they show 0.00. Can you let us know?


Peter
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6592 Posts
Posted 03/20/2017   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Used, favor cancelled. There was a thread on these for stamps from Austria or Switzerland? Philatelic agent there also would favor cancel the stamps to be used for postage in mailing and insert them inside the mailing instead of on the cover.

I think you will run into some differences of opinion on what constitutes "postally used", so I'm not going to wander into that minefield.

I don't consider them CTOs because CTOs are sold as cancelled stamps that cannot be used as postage. These stamps were actually applied toward the postage payment and cancelled for that reason.
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Edited by khj - 03/21/2017 1:57 pm
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Posted 03/21/2017   12:35 am  Show Profile Check TheArtfulHinger's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Used, favor cancelled


That's my diagnosis as well. "True" CTO's are cancelled and sold by the sheet at a discount from face value, and there's no pretense that they ever paid to carry any mail. I don't think NZ just sells cancelled stamps like this to anyone who wants them, at least not at a discount from face value.
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Posted 03/21/2017   09:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, favor-canceled. Nice, thoughtful favor, too.
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Canada
137 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   1:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What I would like to know is if the printed postage meters on the outside of the envelope give the actual value of the stamps or if they show 0.00.


ikeyPikey:

I remember checking this and the meter postage and the included cancelled stamps read the same. This could have been an accounting problem for NZPO.

One problem of classing these as used is that their postmark boldly says "Philatelic Bureau" which will undoubtedly raise the eyebrows of the postally-used crowd.
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