Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

New Zealand - Used or CTO?  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Valued Member

Canada
137 Posts
Posted 03/18/2017   4:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
In the 1970s, I subscribed to new issues from the New Zealand Philatelic Bureau. The stamps came in envelopes with the stamps printed by a postage meter machine. Inside the package, however, they included stamps to the value of the metered postage on brown parcel paper with lovely circular date stamps.

My question is whether these should be classed as used, or as cancelled-to-order stamps.

And does NZ still continue this rather philatelist-friendly process?

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Send note to Staff

Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
18683 Posts
Posted 03/18/2017   5:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion:
I would have them as used.
Impressed.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United Kingdom
364 Posts
Posted 03/18/2017   8:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DavidR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
CTO are not postally used, which is what I prefer. On the occasions I keep them I use CTO (or FDC cancels) as space fillers until I can get a really nice CDS or a light slogan postmark. For me, a postmark adds to the history of a stamp, it shows where it has been.
DavidR
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Canada
137 Posts
Posted 03/19/2017   10:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Rod and David.

Well, it appears we have a 1-all draw. Do I get the casting vote?

I got Australia, New Zealand and Canada - plus a number of smaller Pacific countries - from my father. He was very much a believer in postally used. He didn't have any mint stamps until the KGVI era and any mint stamp he had really had to be postally useful. As a result, and to my chagrin, he had the Australian Arms high values, but only the 5/-, 10/- and 1 values. He couldn't see how anyone could use a 2 stamp on anything. This flowed back to his collection of 'Roos where his highest ale is the 2/-. And this was at a time when you could buy two complete mint sheets of 160 of the first penny red KGV sideface for 10. (But that, of course, was about 3 day's wages.)

I thought I would post an image of the NZ Philatelic Bureau equivalent postage as I find I still have a couple on their original paper.

Frank.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Bedrock Of The Community
Learn More...
Australia
18683 Posts
Posted 03/20/2017   6:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thanks, Rod and David.
Well, it appears we have a 1-all draw. Do I get the casting vote?


You should always get the casting vote
"Tread your own path"

Seeing your examples, I climb over the fence, and sit with David, CTO.

I was thinking they had the envelope inside the outer envelope
and the cover cancelled.
Seeing these pieces of yours, I opt for CTO.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4171 Posts
Posted 03/20/2017   6:46 pm  Show Profile Check Petert4522's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion they are postally used, because they paid for the mailing of the letter. What I would like to know is if the printed postage meters on the outside of the envelope give the actual value of the stamps or if they show 0.00. Can you let us know?


Peter
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6590 Posts
Posted 03/20/2017   9:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Used, favor cancelled. There was a thread on these for stamps from Austria or Switzerland? Philatelic agent there also would favor cancel the stamps to be used for postage in mailing and insert them inside the mailing instead of on the cover.

I think you will run into some differences of opinion on what constitutes "postally used", so I'm not going to wander into that minefield.

I don't consider them CTOs because CTOs are sold as cancelled stamps that cannot be used as postage. These stamps were actually applied toward the postage payment and cancelled for that reason.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by khj - 03/21/2017 1:57 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1793 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   12:35 am  Show Profile Check TheArtfulHinger's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TheArtfulHinger to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Used, favor cancelled


That's my diagnosis as well. "True" CTO's are cancelled and sold by the sheet at a discount from face value, and there's no pretense that they ever paid to carry any mail. I don't think NZ just sells cancelled stamps like this to anyone who wants them, at least not at a discount from face value.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
2904 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   09:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, favor-canceled. Nice, thoughtful favor, too.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Canada
137 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   1:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What I would like to know is if the printed postage meters on the outside of the envelope give the actual value of the stamps or if they show 0.00.


ikeyPikey:

I remember checking this and the meter postage and the included cancelled stamps read the same. This could have been an accounting problem for NZPO.

One problem of classing these as used is that their postmark boldly says "Philatelic Bureau" which will undoubtedly raise the eyebrows of the postally-used crowd.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum Topics Recently Active Forum Topics
  Imperforate 4d Kangaroo?
  Cut Square Stamp identification
  Looks like eBay is broken now?
  Canada Odd Unlisted Precancels - possibly Errors
  Canada Empress of Ireland press sheet
  Help with IDing watermark on cut square
  A perfectly placed ink void
  Lovely Q3 parcel post on first flight cover
  Scott 89xx-2 precancel
  Trying to identify stamp Scott 441 versus 448
  Can't find in German Catalogue Type 61?
  R15c double transfer pages from COMPEX
  Estate Stamp Collection ???
  Is this a Stamp? Possibly Russian?
  Minor issue with an eBay lot description
  Lousy stamps' supplier, need a new one. Please advice
  Anyone have an illustration of the Relief/Transfer Roller of 1851 3c
  RJA21 versus RJA41 overprints
  Identifying stamps without any identifiers
  Swiss 1850 Poste Locale 2 1/2 Rp. Forgery?
  12 Stanley Steamer (Scott 2132) Type I and II differences
  Russian empire 1r with watermark
  Look at this one, how come no one other than me bid on it ?
  A facsimile of a facsimile?
  Scott 2115 tagging alternatives

  College stamps (Keble Oxford)
  Lundy Stamps
  Imperforate 4d Kangaroo?
  Early US covers up to 1930
  Regency Stamp Auctions in St. Louis
  APRL - Used for the First Time
  12 Stanley Steamer (Scott 2132) Type I and II differences
  German and Austrian perfins
  Cut Square Stamp identification
  Looks like eBay is broken now?
  Disney Stamps
  Trying to identify stamp Scott 441 versus 448
  Cut squares, general identification help
  Canada Odd Unlisted Precancels - possibly Errors
  Great Britain : Postmarks.
  For you Tuvalu collectors.
  Jaipur and Rabat - stationery envelopes
  Modern Industrial Art and Design
  Canada small queen help.
  Mining stamps
  The Stamps of Portugal.
  Help with IDing watermark on cut square
  Estate Stamp Collection ???
  Scott numbers are hard to find.
  Canada Empress of Ireland press sheet

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2017 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2014 Stamp Community Forums Go To Top Of Page
It took 0.14 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05