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1913 Belgian precancel  
 

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
737 Posts
Posted 04/03/2010   07:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Ryan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
A thread concerning Belgian precancels is ongoing in one of the buy / sell forum areas that require 50 posts before a reply can be made. I typed the following stuff out and it failed to go through because I don't have enough posts yet. So, I figured I might as well stick it in the precancel forum.


Quote:
<That's immediately interesting. How do those dates account for this Leuven/Louvain mis-strike, dated 1913?>

Very, Interesting!
It is not listed.
One, it was omitted from the 38 ed by mistake.
Two, it an unlisted, unknown & unrecorded item.
Three, or it's a fake or forgery.

I have a 1997 copy of the Belgian préos catalogue, and it's listed there. 1c numeral with "Leuven 1913 Louvain" roller precancel, Position B is cat. #2158, valued at 40 Belgian Francs (catalogue minimum value in 1997 was 20 F). It looks like the three line precancel for Leuven started in 1910. Before that, they used a two line precancel, "Louvain 09" for example (pre-1900 they used a 4 digit year date, as of 1900 they switched to two digits).

I find it odd that the two line precancel uses the French name for the town rather than the Flemish name. I checked Wikipedia, and Leuven is in the Flemish region of Belgium, although it's very close to the border to the Walloon region. Has the language dominance changed over the years? (I can answer this myself now - pre-1910, all Belgian precancels used the French names for the towns, even if the town itself was in the Flemish region.)

Ryan
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1866 Posts
Posted 04/03/2010   08:47 am  Show Profile Check jubilee's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jubilee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the pre-cancel in question. It's also a nice mis-strike



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Pillar Of The Community
USA
9740 Posts
Posted 04/03/2010   08:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add philb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ryan, thanks for your input..thats one of the great things about stamp collectors they will go off the beaten path and create an individual collection from Belgian precancels or parcel post stamps..how refreshing..when I first joinned a stamp club..the VAST majority of the collectors collected Germany, United States and Great Britain..perhaps they still do !
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APS 070059 Life Member International Society of Guatemala Collectors I.S.G.C. #853
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4349 Posts
Posted 04/03/2010   1:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Nice precancel Ryan

I created an album for Belgian 'back-of-the-book' material using my C.O.B. 1997 edition(Catalogue Officiale Belgique) catalogue and included all of the Belgian precancels as well.

I try to get these from different online auctions as well. No matter how cheap they are listed in the catalogues, they seem to sell way over that. Sometimes though I hit it lucky.

However, since you have posted this thread, I now have realized how incomplete the COB catalogue is since the 1913 Louvain precancela is not even listed in it

This also makes my album outdated too :(

Oh well, live and learn. I will now have to hunt up some more reference material on these.

Cheers

Bujutsu



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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
737 Posts
Posted 04/03/2010   3:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ryan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I now have realized how incomplete the COB catalogue is since the 1913 Louvain precancela is not even listed in it

This also makes my album outdated too :(

Oh well, live and learn. I will now have to hunt up some more reference material on these.

It's far easier to just scan the cover of the Belgian preos catalogue than it is to type in the massive bilingual title of the work. Here's what I have - as far as I know, this 1997 edition is the most current available.

The COB lists only typographed precancels, the ones with nice clear type faces that are printed in complete sheets on a press. The 1913 Leuven precancel was hand rolled using a device like the one shown on the cover. You need the preos catalogue to get those listings. And as is shown on the cover of the catalogue, hand rolling often leads to poor registration of the precancel, more often than not failing to line up centered over the stamp.

Ryan


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2733 Posts
Posted 04/03/2010   7:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, That's correct! I missed the fact that the catalog I had was typographed and does not list the Handstamp/manuel rollers types that were used. Those would have started in 1894 in believe.
The Belgium typographed precancels could be considered a-kin to the US Bureaus.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
18400 Posts
Posted 04/04/2010   6:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice info Ryan, thanks.
Another Louvain mis registration.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4349 Posts
Posted 04/05/2010   11:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Thanks for that information Ryan. I wasn't aware of that fact.

I buy foreign catalogues every now and then to get something above and beyond the Scott and Gibbons realm. It would appear that I now should be looking for a copy of this catalogue to get updated. More work needed in my Belgian B-O-B album :(

I love this hobby anyway lol

Chimo

Bujutsu
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4349 Posts
Posted 04/06/2010   11:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Hi Ryan

Would you by chance know where one can buy the Preos catalogue on Belgian prcancels??

My interest has been peaked again <G>

Thank you

Bujutsu
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2733 Posts
Posted 04/06/2010   1:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If in stock try the Precancel Stamp Society (PSS), they may have one on hand!
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4349 Posts
Posted 04/06/2010   2:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Good idea Warrehouse

I will try them


Thank you

Bujutsu
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
737 Posts
Posted 04/07/2010   10:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ryan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hi Ryan

Would you by chance know where one can buy the Preos catalogue on Belgian prcancels??

I just happened to come across it on eBay a couple of years ago - good luck on my part. It's not associated with the PSS in any way, and it hasn't been available through Michael Hynes, who has been the source for most of my precancel catalogues.

I just took a quick look at the Vera Trinder website (UK), which is a source for a great number of worldwide catalogues, but it's not in stock there, either. Same thing with Philathek, my primary German source. Both of these shops do sell the COB, so perhaps they could also get the Preos catalogue for you.

Nothing currently on eBay (US or Germany). Some quick internet searching doesn't turn up a seller either, at least not one that I can find.

The final attempt was at the home page for the BBKPH / CPBNTP, the Belgian association of professional stamp dealers, who also are the publishers for the COB. There's nothing on their site about purchasing the catalogue online - all I can suggest is that you contact them and ask.

http://bbkph-cpbntp.be/english/contact.php

Ryan
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Valued Member
Netherlands
333 Posts
Posted 04/08/2010   10:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jan-Simon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I find it odd that the two line precancel uses the French name for the town rather than the Flemish name. I checked Wikipedia, and Leuven is in the Flemish region of Belgium, although it's very close to the border to the Walloon region. Has the language dominance changed over the years? (I can answer this myself now - pre-1910, all Belgian precancels used the French names for the towns, even if the town itself was in the Flemish region.)


The language dominance has indeed changed. I am not sure when this happened, but French used to be the language of the ruling class. If you wanted to make a career, you had to speak French. At some point, the Flemish wanted equal rights for their language, and finally got them.
It also has to do with a shift in the economic dominance in the country. Flanders used to be a bit backward, compared to the French speaking south, but that has changed when the mines and the steel industry declined.

Back to the topic: I'd like to get my hands on such a catalogue. Will keep my eyes open at eBay...
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2733 Posts
Posted 04/08/2010   2:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add warrehouse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Flems have become more affluent then their Walloon brothers due to high-tech businesses & customer service systems. While the old industrial complex in southern Belgium has declined as aforementioned by Jan-Simon.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1951 Posts
Posted 01/14/2011   10:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a follow up on Belgian precancel catalogs. I have a copy of that PREOS 1997 catalog. It is a nice stylish book, but not in English and not priced in USD - so less useful for me. It is hard to locate and pretty expensive. In 2005 John Randall of the US PSS put out the International Precancel Catalog. It includes all countries except US and Canada [Unitrade publishes an up to date quality Canada precancel catalog]. The Randall book seems to have a lot more listings than the PREOS book, and also better organized. Both books separate typographs from handstamps. PREOS sorts strictly by date, then town; Randall by town, then date which is more logical to US collectors.
The Randall book is readily available here: http://www.precanceledstamps.com/pr...ed-catalogs/
If you look over the Randall book, you can see why a printed Belgium album would be impractical - it would be a thousand pages. I keep mine on hagnar style stock sheets.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
18400 Posts
Posted 09/23/2011   04:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


1912 Precancel Namur / Namen 1912



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