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DUTCH and Spain precancel  
 

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
958 Posts
Posted 08/27/2012   05:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 22crows to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is this what you are looking for?

http://precancels.com/wordpress/wp-...rCancels.pdf
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
17257 Posts
Posted 08/27/2012   08:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Valued Member
Italy
11 Posts
Posted 08/27/2012   09:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fabiov58 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks 22crowns for the link to Glossary: very usefull.
Bye fabiov58
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4347 Posts
Posted 08/27/2012   12:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rod and 22crows

This does explain a lot. I will keep that url on file.

Chimo

Bujutsu
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Valued Member
United States
442 Posts
Posted 07/04/2013   3:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spain_1850 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've been collecting Spain for a number of years and was always under the assumption that Spain did not have any precancels, until I read this in Theo Van Dam's book "A Postal History of Spain":

"7. PRECANCELS (Franqueo Concertado)
In 1879 a system for pre-cancels was used for a short time, known as "Franqueo Concertado" (lit. "franking by agreement") with the 1878 and 1879 Alphonso XII (Scott Types A31-33) issues, and very rarely on the 1889 Alphonso XIII "Pelon" or "Babyhead" stamps (Scott Type A34).
The system consisted of monthly payments on account for the postage due. This amount was paid in sheets or large blocks of adhesives, which were cancelled at the Correo Central (Main Post Office) in Madrid with an hexagonal marking. This accounts for the large multiples of the 1879 and 1882 issues often with original gum."

Then I found this entry in the book "Billig's Handbook on Postmarks, volume 13, The Postal Markings of Spain", also by Van Dam, that pertains to the same thing including a sample of the marking.



Then I did some searching in my stash of duplicates and found a few of what I believe to be these "precancels".




The 4 Una Peseta stamps on the left appear to be a block of 4 that have been broken apart, but on closer examination of the cancels they are actually 4 different sections of the same type of cancel. They also have full gum. The one on the right has no gum.

I'm not sure if these are considered "pre-cancels" like what are normally seen elsewhere, but Theo Van Dam seemed to think they were.

So I guess Spain did issue at least a type of pre-cancel.
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Edited by spain_1850 - 07/04/2013 3:31 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
5763 Posts
Posted 07/04/2013   3:42 pm  Show Profile Check smauggie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thx for sharing. Now to look through my dupes.
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APS Member #: 222539 AAPE, Maplewood Stamp Club (MN), Northern Philatelic Society, US Philatelic Classics Society, Auxiliary Markings Club, Canal Zone Study Group, Minnesota Postal History Society
Valued Member
United States
442 Posts
Posted 07/04/2013   3:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add spain_1850 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No problem. I actually bought one of the high values in one of these sets (4 peseta grey, if I remember right) believing the cancel to be a genuine postal use. Now, thinking back, I see the high values on eBay all the time and alot of them have this type of "precancel" being sold as a postal usage. I'm glad I discovered this tidbit of information before I spent too much on filling some of my holes.
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Valued Member
Italy
11 Posts
Posted 07/04/2013   4:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fabiov58 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting information!
Thank you!
Fabiov58
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
961 Posts
Posted 12/21/2013   4:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PoStat4evR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Chasa:
I don't think I posted to this thread, but I find your Netherland precancels, posted back on the first page of this string, interesting. It looks to me like a roller drum type of cancel similar to the roller drum cancels used here in the US. I think I have seen similar cancels on Dutch Postal Stationery, but that is only a memory flicker, I go through so much postal stationery that seeing and remembering are usually two different things. I don't think I have picked up any with this type of cancel on stationery, but will look through my stuff.

In addition to the stamped precancels, other than Canada and the US, are there any other countries that may use precancels on Postal Stationery.

I found a small very elusive sub collection of US precancels, and that is on US Postal Card Postal Stationery. There are a few that have been issued, but one VERY seldom ever sees any of it for sale these days. Oh well, interesting thread.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4347 Posts
Posted 12/22/2013   2:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bujutsu to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also regarding Chasa's image on the first page, I would like to ask if these cancellations are the ones referred to a 'life saver' types??

Thank you

Chimo

Bujutsu
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